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C00001 00001
C00002 00002 Here are stuff about former trips to Rand
C00003 00003 First trip to RAND (Dec 80-Jan 81)
C00013 00004 Motivation for 2nd trip
C00015 00005 Initiating 2nd trip to RAND (Mar 80)
C00024 00006 Arranging 2nd trip to RAND (Mar 80)
C00032 00007 Plane reservations - trip to RAND (3/81)
C00039 00008 Most recent preparatory contact
C00043 ENDMK
C⊗;
Here are stuff about former trips to Rand
First trip to RAND (Dec 80-Jan 81)
∂18 Dec 1980 1714-PST CSD.LENAT [RICK at RAND-AI: Re: RLL]
To: CSD.GREINER
You should send a note to Rick, proposing which days next
week are good for you.
I think he expects this to be planning meeting, rather than a real paid consulting
day. If a joint project does emerge, you should inquire
about arranging a consulting concract, getting a clearance, etc.
Let me know what's happening.
Regards,
Doug
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Mail-from: ARPANET site RAND-AI rcvd at 18-Dec-80 1658-PST
Date: 18 Dec 1980 1655-PST
From: RICK at RAND-AI
Subject: Re: RLL
To: CSD.LENAT at SU-SCORE
In-Reply-To: Your message of 18-Dec-80 1609-PST
doug:
i'm interested enough in rll that you ought to have your emissary
drop by with some concrete proposals. i am interested in the language
issues following ROSIE and still wish we were working on competition,
etc. i think it may be possible to work something out if we can find
some target application. at this point, there isn't any specific application
underway, but i'd still be interested in the competitive theory problem
and i have a new colleague who might be good. have russ propose
some meeting times.
on the book, we now have hard deadlines from all the authors
ranging from jan15 to feb 15 for their drafts. it's going slower
than i hoped, but it looks like they'll all come in soon.
i hope everyone up there is doing well. our aaron has his first
illness, laryngitis perhaps virus/flu related. oh well.
cheers,
rick
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∂Mailed to RICK@RAND-AI, CSD.LENAT 11:59 19-Dec
Meeting Dates
Rick:
Doug forwarded your message to me. Sorry to hear about Aaron; but
hope his reduced vocal abilities have, at least, lead to increased
sleep for you and Barbara...
I'm still formulating plans for this trip down south.
The current best candidate involves leaving here
this Tuesday, and returning, say, Sunday morning.
This means I could stop off at Rand en route on Wednesday, the 24th.
Another possibility would require postponing my return departure a day,
allowing us to meet on Monday the 29th.
(I would actually have no objection to meeting anytime in between,
if that would jive better with your schedules.)
As to the content of that meeting:
I wasn't able to infer from your response what sort of "concrete
proposals" you were after.
Did you mean finding a connection joining the reprsentation-related research
(of RLL/MRS) with the linguistic based approached examplified in
ROSIE, or some particular application which required the joint facilities
of these two systems? ... or something completely different.
(Perhaps you were comtemplating something based on the
"competitive theory problem" you mentioned.
I'm totally unfamiliar with that work (or even just what it means).
If it's relevant, could send some reference to this work?)
Anyway, I look forward to seeing you et al. soon. Let me know when.
Russ
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∂19-Dec-80 1237 RICK at RAND-AI Re: Meeting Dates
To: RDG at SU-AI
cc: csd.lenat at SU-SCORE
russ:
let's meet on the morning of the 24th for our first
interaction. how's 9:30.
concrete proposals refer to sow's ears and other
such yuletide offerings.
see you then,
rick
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∂Mailed to RICK@RAND-AI, CSD.LENAT/CC 11:42 22-Dec
The best laid plans of ...
Rick -
The weather in LA & SF conspired to keep my brother (and
part-time auto mechanic) from arriving here last evening.
This made it very hard to begin tuning up my car this morning, as we'd planned.
This will, in turn, push back my entire schedule.
So...
Would it be possible to meet sometime AFTER this Wednesday? As I mentioned
earlier I would have no objection to convening on the 25th or 26th.
(These do seem appropriate times to discuss concrete sow's ear, purses,
and other things pertaining to this Solstice Season.)
The other obvious candidate is next Monday.
If these are all out-of-the-question, I do have plane reservations (for tomorrow
afternoon) which I could honor.
Russ
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∂22-Dec-80 1516 RICK at RAND-AI Re: The best laid plans of ...
To: RDG at SU-AI
cc: csd.lenat at SU-SCORE
russ:
next monday is best by far. what time would you like?
how about 9:30 at rand (main "east" lobby is where we'll have to meet).
--rick
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∂Suggested Agenda for Dec 80 meeting
1. Details of RLL
2. Paper on MRS
3. Discuss:
a) Plans to cooperate on project involving RLL (/ROSIE?)
b) Use of RAND-AI machine
(for RLL, perhaps other HPP can buy time as well)
c) My involvement:
Consulting with researcher on 3a
Suggesting/critiquing ROSIE?
4. DBL might drop by
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∂31-Dec-80 2354 RICK at RAND-AI Re: The best laid plans of ...
To: RDG at SU-AI
cc: csd.lenat at SU-SCORE
In-Reply-To: Your message of 22-Dec-80 1142-PST
russ-
you're right about the best laid plans...
i've got the flu tonite (sunday) so I'm almost positive
we can't meet monday morning as scheduled. we'll have to
do it by phone i guess. sorry, but i'd rather not
expose you. i'm trying various ways to reach you before
you come to rand, but if i fail, i'm sorry for any
inconvenience this causes.
rick
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∂29 Dec 1980 1017-PST CSD.GREINER Trials and tribulations
To: csd.lenat
cc: csd.genesereth, csd.greiner
For a host of reasons, it looks like I'll remain in the LA area until
at least Thursday. My meeting with Rick seems postponed indefinately,
due to Rick's current baught (sp) [sorry, no dictionary] with the flu.
I plan to meet with Danny Gorlin over lunch. Any other suggested
things-to-do in this area?
Russ
Motivation for 2nd trip
∂19 Jan 1981 1314-PST CSD.GREINER Load average
To: csd.lenat
cc: CSD.GREINER
is ridiculous, even on weekends! I found that a load average of between
8 and 17 means closing up the KBs, and remaking files will require about
2 hours real-time! Have you asked our friends at Rand about the use of
their facilities? (I should warn you that thinks aren't AS ideal as they
had been -- I actually saw their load average soar to slightly over 1,
[for the first time] yesterday.)
Any word on other contacts with those there, on issues like consulting?
Russ
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∂19 Jan 1981 1529-PST CSD.LENAT Re: Load average
To: CSD.GREINER
I will send Rick a msg now about time and consulting.
Doug
Initiating 2nd trip to RAND (Mar 80)
∂Mailed to RICK@RAND-AI 16:12 26-Jan
RAND-AI & Consulting
Rick -
Greetings. Hope your flu has subsided, and didn't inhibit your New Year's
Day celebration.
I'll try to briefly paraphrase in this letter (my side of) the discussion
I'd hoped to have with you during my last visit there. There were two
basic questions: How available is the Rand-AI computer, for RLL-related
work; and are you as interested in a continuing dialogue between Rand and
Stanford as we are. Related to the second point was the possibility of
Rand hiring me as a consultant on some issues.
First, computer issues: Over the last few months I've only once seen
Rand-AI's load average top 1.0. Are these apparent cycles-to-spare for
real? Does ths reflect a permanent condition? As Doug might have
mentioned, the computers here are all overcrowded -- I spent hours
performing trivial tasks, even on week-ends, because of their consistently
high load average. Would it be possible/permissable for us RLLers here to
use your apparently abundant resources?
There seem many approaches:
1) I could simply use the (ROSIE-inspired) account you guys so magnimously
gave me. I've not done that so far, lacking your permission. This would
certainly be the easiest solution, and would be 90% of everything we would
want. (The only 10% corresponds to a bit more disk space.)
Of course you at Rand would gain by this deal as well. With these closer
ties it would be trivial for us to provide, and maintain, a variety of
software tools developed here. This would include
i) CORLL, a (by-now-well-debugged and tested) demand-paging facility to
provides virtualy infinite storage space for data, avoiding InterLisp's
256K limitation. [This includes a library of small, general (almost
documented) user functions written over these years, to sidestep some of
InterLisp's limitations/problems.]
ii) RLL itself (I'll very soon freeze a version, which would be
available to anyone who wishes to play with it.)
iii) MRS - the "other" representation language language here at Stanford.
In addition, there would be someone (ie me) to maintain (or at least serve
as liason to the real developers/maintainers of) these various systems.
2) We here at Stanford could work on some RLL-related project with youse
guys at Rand. The first example which comes to mind would be a
continuation of the quick&dirty comparison between
expert-system-building-systems begun in San Diego last summer -- using RLL
and ROSIE as the two examplars. Another proposal would involve
programming some actual application task (either something Rand is
currently working on, such as Early Warning simulations, or something
totally new) in RLL.
3) If Rand isn't feeling generous, and none of these proposals seems
feasible, there is a small amount of money which could be used to buy some
time on your machine, at least for a short while.
Of course, if that fast response time at Rand-AI reflects a poor sampling
on my part, or if it is only ephemeral, this whole point is moot. One
final comment: Doug assures me that by the year we'll have ready access
to Xerox's Diraldos - at this point we'll probably move RLL from the
slower machines onto such systems.
----------
On to the other point -- the possibilites of consulting.
While developing first RLL and more recently working on MRS, I was forced
to address, and (at least attempt to) resolve, a wide variety of
representation related problems. These issues seem fairly ubiquitous to
representation languages; it is unlikely the ROSIE developers will manage
to continue avoid these situations.
In fact many of the problems that Danny was just beginning to address
seemed closely ties with such matters - such as how to make ROSIE suitable
extensible, and how to handle variables/intentional-objects.
As Doug may have mentioned, I would be interested in sharing my both
experiences and suggestions with ROSIE's developers. A consultation job
would also serve to cement Stanford-Rand ties, and help avoid (or at least
minimize) the otherwise unavoidable duplication and reduplication of
effort.
If this is acceptable, there are several ways I might fit in. The most
obvious would be to visit Rand abot once a month, and discuss the recent
developments. Another tack would be to involve myself, with others there,
on some particular application task; one designed to "stretch" ROSIE's
boundaries. This more goal-directed approach would expose rough spots
more rapidly than the more hit and miss approach suggested above. The
third would follow the proposal #2 mentioned in the earlier part of this
letter -- performing some direct comparision of these various
representation languges, towards a more complete analysis of each of them.
----------
I am quite open to any different suggestions you might have, on either of
these questions. Let me know what you think.
Russ
Arranging 2nd trip to RAND (Mar 80)
∂"Sent" Rick a note 17:02 6-Feb (asking if he received the last message.)
@send rick Did you get my magnus opus, sent a few weeks ago (Not trying to press
ure you, just distrustful of ARPAnet mail...)
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∂06-Feb-81 1749 RICK at RAND-AI Proposal
Russ--
God have I been derelict! Yes I would like to
work something out with you! I've been breaking my
ass getting ready for an ARPA site visit 2/12 and
am falling incredibly far behind. Everything happens
at once. If you're coming to LA soon, please
come by and we'll set up a consulting agreement.
I would like to have someone like you around touting
the benefits of your new tools and helping us on
ours. I think machine cycles can be arranged at
least in off-peak hours. This needs to be worked
out face-to-face. Please propose a time. I'm out
of it till the 16th, and out of town most of the
following week. So it could be the week of the 16th
or the first week in march. What say you?
Rick
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∂09-Feb-81 1450 RDG Response
To: rick at RAND-AI
CC: RDG at SU-AI
Sorry, I wasn't trying to elicit any "mea culpa"s -- a simple
acknowledgement that the mail system worked would have been sufficient. I
am, however, even more pleased with the positive note of your reply.
I'll probably be tied up until (at least) early March -- the second most
prominent item on my agenda will be composing an IJCAI paper by then. (To
answer your question, the #1 task is to figure out what to actually write
about, and implement it).
So perhaps we should meet the first week in March, if you're recovered
from your other ordeals by then... the other possibility is during the
quarter break, which begins circa 21 March.
Do you have any specific tasks in mind -- i.e. is there any preliminary
work/readings I should do in preparation?
Final asides:
1) I received the calendar you sent - danke.
2) GREINER@SU-AI did indeed get to me (as did RDG@SAIL).
3) Jack Mostow sends his greetings, to you and yours. (He is still in a
final-pass-on-thesis mode, and will be for another month or two.)
4) Good luck on your site visit.
Russ
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∂09-Feb-81 1759 RICK at RAND-AI Re: Response
Russ:
Let's do it at your earliest convenience, either the first
week in march or the fourth week. What say you?
I don't have any reading in mind for you to do; rather I have in
mind having you become a part-time colleague. Come & talk about it.
If you're planning a visit to LA, I'd like to piggy back on it.
If not, Rand will pay your expenses since it's a personnel function.
You have to fill forms, etc. I'd also like you to be able to spend
a day or two developing a concrete plan while you're here.
See you soon,
Rick
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∂13-Feb-81 1358 RDG Response↑2
To: rick at RAND-AI
CC: RDG at SU-AI
Preliminary meta-comment: Feel free to ignore this message until after
your site visit - none of the answers are at all timely.
I have very tentative plans to hop to LA during the quarter break, circa
20 March. This is easily modified -- I could trivially travel there
earlier, say the first week in March. If you want me to spend more than a
day, I could fly down some Wednesday evening, to devote Thursday and
Friday to meetings there. Shall I make plane reservations for (the only
date which doubles as a command) March 4th?
I've some questions about accomodations: Should I plan to stay at a
cheapie motel in the area? (The only alternative I can see would involve
inconveniencing my Culver City brother, as I did last visit. Even then
I'd need to rent a car to get about.) [I.E. While intending to be as
frugal as possible, I still want to know which tabs Rand will pick up?]
Hope ARPA enjoyed your show.
Russ
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∂16-Feb-81 0933 RICK at RAND-AI Re: Response↑2
Russ:
Please plan to visit Rand 3/19-3/20. Call my new secretary
Jackie Bowens to help you make reservations at the Holiday Inn or
the Pacific Shores (the one I prefer). Don't rent a car on Rand.
Use taxis. Rand will pick up your hotels, upto $18 per day for meals.
We'll share the cost of your plane fare since you're already planning
on coming down.
Call on me Thursday around 9:30 or 10.
See you then.
Rick
Plane reservations - trip to RAND (3/81)
Futher plans, and miscellany re: 3/81 trip
18-March - PSA #620 (SF) 5 PM → (LA) 6:04 PM $38
xxxx22-March - AirCal #143 (OC) 3:50 PM → (SF) 4:59 PM $63
23-March
∂16-Feb-81 1457 Rick at Rand-Unix RLL & MRS Papers
Russ,
Please send me a couple extra copies of the RLL and MRS
papers. Mine were stolen or eaten.
Thanks,
Rick Hayes-Roth
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∂17-Feb-81 1436 RDG Several things
To: rick at RAND-AI
CC: RDG at SU-AI
Rick,
I've a couple copies of the RLL papers all set to go.
Shall I mail them now, or wait until the week-end,
by which time Mike promises the MRS manual will be be ready?
Or would you prefer I send two mailings?
[I do hope these morsels were found more palatable when physically
ingested than they are when intellectually consumed...]
Next issue - I made plane reservations to come there on
(the evening of) 18 March, and plan to stay in LA until Friday evening.
Let me know if you want me to send you my actual itinerary.
Finally, I just wanted to relay the fact that Bob (Englemore) was
quite impressed with your presentation -- I assume he was as pleased with
its semantic content" as with the technique involved.
See you in a month,
Russ
PS (1) Do you see messages sent when you are in RMACS?
(2) Do you have a prefered x ε {AI, UNIX} when receiving messages
to RICK@RAND-x ?
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∂17-Feb-81 1647 RICK at RAND-AI Re: Several things
Why not send two mailings?
I'll nibble on them incrementally.
having your complete itinerary (at least phone numbers, etc.)
can be useful. Add to your rand agenda a detailed discussion of
inheritance rules, with the ROSS group.
I'm not surprised Bob was impressed with the Rand show. It was
great! And I'm now nearly recovered. Can't wait to sweep you
into the intellectual excitement around here.
I see msgs in RMACS, wish I wouldn't, and can't remember how to
talk on tops 20. Mail works better for me.
Rand-ai is my preferred machine for mail.
Best wishes,
Rick
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∂17-Feb-81 1658 RICK at RAND-AI Re: Several things
Russ:
I forgot the critical thing. For you to sign a consulting
agreement here, we absolutely have to have a resume (in hard copy).
Send one to me via net mail or preferably by mail, and bring another
with you. State work experience, references, etc.
Your contact here on fiscal matters will be Hiltrud Johansen
(that's a woman).
Best wishes,
Rick
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∂18-Feb-81 1623 RDG 9:30 Call Tommorrow?
To: rick at RAND-AI
CC: RDG at SU-AI
Rick -
Here is my plane schedule. Did you still want me to call you
(or your secretary) tommorow at 9:30 AM? Could I simply send your
secretary my request that she reserve a hotel room for me?
[Specification: at Pacific Shores for Wednesday & Thursday evenings
(18-19 March), preferably in a room not as close to the street as
last time.]
The RLL papers are in route. Mike is manual-ing, at this very minute.
I'm now putting the finishing touches on my resume, which I'll mail ASAP.
Anything else?
Russ
18-March - PSA #620 (SF) 5 PM → (LA) 6:04 PM $38
22-March - AirCal #143 (OC) 3:50 PM → (SF) 4:59 PM $63
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∂18-Feb-81 1957 RICK at RAND-AI Re: 9:30 Call Tommorrow?
russ:
please do call my secretary to make sure she gets
this msg. she doesn't use the 2060, and it's possible i
will fail to relay this to her effectively.
thanks for the info.
rick
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∂Enclosed in letter to snail-mailed to Rick @ RAND
19 Feb 81
Rick -
Enclosed is the resume you requested. I wasn't sure
which type of references you wanted -- publication list or people
willing to supply recommendations. So to be safe I print the people
qualifying for that latter category.
Anything else I can supply?
Russ
Most recent preparatory contact
∂Mailed to RICK 18:17 9-Mar
And now for the next course...
Rick -
1) The MRS manual was just 10 minutes ago finished.
Your copy is, at this moment, winging its way southward.
2) I too will be enroute, as planned, next Wednesday week.
I assume your secretary
(no longer Jackie Bowen I understand)
was successful in reserving a room for me at the Pacific Shore Hotel.
(If not I could always stay at one of the cathouses
-- in whatever capacity seems most appropriate...)
3) Shall I just show up at the front door of Rand at 9AM on 19-March,
or at some other time/location?
What sort of in-Rand itinerary will I have?
Should I anticipate other activities, etc., in the evenings as well?
4) Anything from here I should lug there?
Russ
∂09-Mar-81 2015 RICK at RAND-AI Re: And now for the next course...
Date: 9 Mar 1981 2013-PST
From: RICK at RAND-AI
Subject: Re: And now for the next course...
To: RDG at SU-AI
cc: RICK at RAND-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 9-Mar-81 1816-PST
russ:
please show up about 9:30 am. anything earlier and you'd
have to take the consequences. bring your own copies of rll, mrs
manuals, etc. be prepared for mucho looseness. little planning
at all from my end. this is an exploratory session. i hope we
can have dinner thursday nite while you're here; lots depends on
the day - to -day state of aaron, etc.
please double check with kim at rand-unix (my current secretary)
of 213-393-0411 x615 that your reservations have been confirmed.
looking forward to seeing you,
rick
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∂Mailed to KIM@RAND-UNIX, RICK@RAND-AI 13:21 10 Mar
Reservations
Hello.
I spoke with Jackie a few weeks ago, asking her to reserve a room
for me at the Pacific Shore Hotel, for the evenings of March 18 and 19.
Rick suggested I contact you to confirm they were made.
(As I may not arrive until late Wednesday evening, these will have to be
guaranteed. Also, I would prefer a room not as close to the noisy street
as my last room there was, if possible.)
Thanks,
Russ
∂11-Mar-81 1028 kim at RAND-UNIX HOTEL CONFIRMATION
Cc: rick at RAND-UNIX, kim at RAND-UNIX
Russ:
I have confirmed your reservations at the Pacific
Shores Hotel for March 18 and 19 and they are guaranteed
through Rand. Also, I requested a room away from the
hustle and bustle of the surrounding streets.
Kim Guercio